BAD DISTORTION IN MIDI - ALMOST JAMAICA

[shyamwestwind]

Hi Everyone
Most of the sites have the same midi with the same high distorting levels. Most of the tracks distort and its confusing changing the instruments on so many of these.
Can anyone help me with the edit work so that it sounds good ?

Attachments:

[JohnG]

Hi Shyam,

Got it. At first glance it looks like channel volumes are set almost at maximum for some instruments, not all. They need scaling down. Do you need a quick tutorial? (Tomorrow)

JohnG.

[shanless]

I adjusted the volumes with anvil studios and they seem ok to me...maybe I'm missing something!!!!
Kev

[freeway]

Didn't find anything majorly wrong with the file either plays normal to me .....

Not sure if your still using a Yamaha KB still Shyam but I find this free prog Midiplayer2 very useful for troublesome files as well as many other fixes and Im sure it works for both XG and GM formats ... it can also set the vol of your midis to an average setting just load in a batch of midis that you feel are too loud and when finished they should all be on more or less the same volume .....worth checking out GnMidi as well there's a 5 day demo you can download in there Im sure that has such a function as well.....unless its just a few patches or controlers that are causing you problems or even the KB itself........... Im sure John will go into this in more detail .........regards
Barry


www.svpworld.com/dnn/Software/Stylemanagerseries/MidiPlayer2byMichaelPBedesem/tabid/112/Default.aspx


www.gnmidi.com/

[frank]

Try soloing each track and adjust CC#11, CC#7 or velocity percentage.
Try it yourself its the best way to learn.

[JohnG]

Hi Shyam,

Here's a quick and easy one for you. Hope it solves the problem.

When you open the file in CWPA you will see something like what is shown in the image below.

You may have to move the "window divider" right to see it all, and the information may be displayed with the columns in a different order. To shift them around move the mouse into the column heading, click and hold, and move the whole column right or left. I dragged the ones I wanted to show you over to the left.

Now, notice that several of the tracks have their volume set to 120. This, IMO, is rather high for many systems, but some will cope okay with it. I've ringed the ones in red that are too high IMO and in blue another that may be causing problems.



How do we change these? It's quite straightforward actually.

First right click in any area in the left hand side (track information), of the first track we want to modify. I right clicked on the "120" of the "Fretless Bass" in the example below, and the result was a little menu. Now click on "Track Properties".



And the result is the little window below. You can see that there are actually a lot of things we can change here, as well as the Program, we can modify the Pan (CC#10) and Volume (CC#7). So either use the "-" key to the right of the volume box to reduce it, or highlight the current value and then type in a new value.



What I usually do is to cut it by 10 as the first experiment. Click on "OK" to save the value and you should see it changed in the main Track View window.

Then go on and do the same with the other LOUD tracks. If a value of 110 for volume is still too loud, cut them by another 10.

Then you may find that the instrumental balance is not right. So go back and do a similar process with the other unaltered tracks until it sounds right for you. If you have scaled back the loudest tracks by e.g. 20, then you may want to scale the other tracks down by 10 to 15. The quieter tracks by less than the louder tracks.

It's a fairly quick and easy edit to do so you can spend 10 minutes or so achieving the right mix. And, whilst you're there you may want to play with the pan positions too!

Give it a try and let me know how it goes.

HTH?
JohnG.

[freeway]

Thanx for that info John. ........while we're on this topic is there a way you know of in CWPA of reducing the overall volume of the track without going through each one individually ? love cutting corners me ;D Cheerz John
Barry

[JohnG]

Hi Shyam,

There is a SysEx command that Yamaha kit usually responds to and it is a "Master Volume" control. However if you're not familiar with getting SysEx commands into a MIDI file in CWPA then I'd stick with the method I've just outlined. Of course you often have to insert another Master Volume Sysex at the end of the file, or make sure that ALL your files have a GM reset at the beginning, but I know you do that anyway!!!

JohnG.

[frank]

My 2 old p's worth.
Double cick on the volume value in the volume column adjust + or - as required.
Midi file posted has 2 X CC# 11 in most tracks.Also there are some other controllers that may address your Yamaha.
It may pay to check the Midi controller chart in the handbook.

[JohnG]

You're quite right Frank, about double clicking and editing in that way. You could do the same for the Pan Pot too.

However, if you look more closely, you will find that in each case, where cc#11 used at the start of the track, it is set to 127. This is often done to counteract the setting to another value in a previously played file. In this case it's completely superfluous, as they have previously issued a GM reset which sets cc#11 to 127 in every channel by default, and incidentally every cc#7 to 100, and every cc#10 to 64 and so on.

But in this file, for a change, cc#11 is used in it's correct form as a way of controlling expression. The MIDI standard says that this controller should be set, as default to 127, whereas cc#7 should be set to 100. CC#7 is like the fader on a mixing desk, once you have used it to set the instruments relative level then it should, in general, not be used too much to alter that level. Pushing it too high, as well as having other instruments too high too, can push some audio stages into distortion, or if they are digital, into clipping.

If you look at many of the professional VST instruments they only use cc#11 to trigger different sample levels. i.e they don't just change the loudness of the note they also affect the timbre of the note, introducing higher overtones, just as bowing a string instrument or blowing a brass or woodwind instrument, or striking the key of a real piano harder would do. In this case it is mimicking the action of the "swell pedal" on an organ.

Additionally, if you check out track 12 you will find dozens, if not hundreds, of cc#11 events, used to change the level of the Electric Jazz Guitar. Used here correctly according to the MIDI spec.

So pulling down the volume, in this case, and by experience in most files, is the thing to do. A level of 120 for several instruments in a mix is way too high (IMO). Just as pushing the faders almost to maximum on several channels would do on my audio mixing desk.

But it's just my 2d worth.
JohnG

[shyamwestwind]

Thank you so much JohnG, that was useful indeed,...... reducing the volumes, but though it brought down the distortion levels, its still there. I noticed two cuprits in this exercise, the FRETLESS BASS and the ELECTRIC GUITAR JAZZ. I changed them to softer voices (I still haven't decided what to use finally ) and they seem to doing the trick.
Why do many people use the fretless bass on many midis ? Other bass guitar voices sound so much more clean and impressive.
I still need to sink in all the other observations you sent me and I'll get back to you on those soon.
Thanks to Kev, Barry and Frank too for all their inputs. We really have such a helpful bunch of friends here, I feel like crying with all this affecttion and advice.

[frank]

Shyam I have soften the file and have posted it back to you.Let's know if this does the trick.

[JohnG]

Ooooh! Don't do that Shyam!

My mission in life is to make myself redundant in these forums! Sound strange?

Wouldn't it be great if all the people here were able to, first of all, modify any SMF they received and tailor it to their exact requirements? Tempo, key, instruments, pulling out (or muting) melody lines, inserting extra tracks, and so on. And secondly to be able to sequence their own tracks?

And actually, if you devote a little time to learning the techniques, it isn't too difficult. Most MIDI sequencing can be learnt, I believe very sincerely, by anyone on this forum. Either by step sequencing, for those who can't play the keyboard, or by playing the notes into a track, for those who can.

For most of us the biggest barrier is usually the attitude we bring to the task, not actually our ability, e.g. "I am a musician, I can't understand these terrible techie things!" Or for me, "I am a deeply techie person, I can never learn to do something as creative as learning to play an instrument!" And, of course, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

If you're clever enough to play an instrument half-passably, you're clever enough to learn to use a sequencer. Likewise the contrary, and I have done in the past, and am doing again. But I'm constantly aware that my attitude holds me back. I keep having to remind myself that learning to play is mainly a case of regular practice and perseverance. To become, then, a good player means listening to many other players and working out how they do it and trying to do the same. So, after a few thousand hours of practice, you will be able to play.

Learning to sequence is MUCH easier than that. It's like trying to work out how to set up columns in MS word, or putting a formula into MS Excel. Can't figure it out? Open the book, read how to do it, try it once or twice, job mastered. Or ask John to write a tutorial, take a few files that are unsatisfactory and do the job, i.e. not just once but several times, and Bob, as they say, is your uncle.

Shyam, I am of the firm opinion that you could become a great sequencer. Just like learning an instrument, it requires application, and maybe a little help along the way, regular practice, and Bingo!

All the best
JohnG.

[freeway]

Hi John.. .......maybe you overlooked or missed my question earlier about reducing the overall volume in a sequence is it possible?.........Cheerz
Barry

[levi2]

freeway there is a midi player/sequencer called midi eddies you cannot go into depth on tracks like most seq but you can mute pan change patch transpose alter vol on each trach with a simple slider also there is a glbal volume if you think all tracks are mixed correct volume wise but want the overall file to be louder or quieter you just use the global vol then save the file