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Post by freeway on Jan 20, 2012 19:29:55 GMT
Hey Jacqui  If you have something like this hanging around it might do the job...... Barry    |
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Post by ziggy on Jan 20, 2012 19:34:55 GMT
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Post by ziggy on Jan 20, 2012 21:43:54 GMT
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Post by frankie on Jan 20, 2012 21:55:11 GMT
Is there an AUX input on the mini disc player you can plug the ipod into ?
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Post by frankie on Jan 20, 2012 22:02:09 GMT
Sounds like the plug or jack is dicey if you have to pull it out slightly to get it to work !!
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Post by ziggy on Jan 21, 2012 10:35:25 GMT
Sounds like the plug or jack is dicey if you have to pull it out slightly to get it to work !! I think it's because it's a stereo plug into a mono socket, the leads that i have suggested should work in the mono input. |
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Post by frankie on Jan 21, 2012 10:37:56 GMT
Sounds like the plug or jack is dicey if you have to pull it out slightly to get it to work !! I think it's because it's a stereo plug into a mono socket, the leads that i have suggested should work in the mono input. She said it was a stereo jack into the ipod ! |
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Post by JohnG on Jan 21, 2012 14:45:32 GMT
Hi Jacqui, Sorry to be late to the party ... again! The iPod has a standard 3.5mm stereo socket and so needs a matching plug. It may be that it needs to be pressed in more firmly not pulled out more. Some 3.5mm plugs are a little short (the cheap ones) and the effect then is that you only get one channel connecting. The tip of the plug makes contact with the ring of the socket and the sleeve goes to sleeve. Instead of tip to tip, ring to ring, sleeve to sleeve. (Tip, Ring, Sleeve or TRS = a stereo plug, Tip, Sleeve or TS = a mono plug.) Sometimes it takes a firm push to get the plug fully home. This plug should have a pair of leads coming out each terminating in an unbalanced (TS) 1/4 inch jack plug. Unbalanced means TS not TRS which is balanced. In plain words, it/s a mono 1/4 inch jack. Unbalanced because the output from the iPod is unbalanced. The output from the iPod appears low because the input at jacks 7/8 and 9/10 are designed for pro levels of +4dBu whereas the iPod output is domestic level at -10dBV. The output of the iPod is electrically equivalent to the 2 track phono plug input, both operating at -10dBV. (I could have got my dBV and dBus muddled without checking with my reference book.) So, 3.5mm stereo jack plug (iPod) to two 6.5mm (1/4 inch) jack plugs for inputs 7/8 or 9/10 gives you use of e.q. but low input. www.thomann.de/gb/pro_snake_tpy_2015_kpp.htmOr, 3.5mm jack plug to two phono plugs plugged into the 2 track input gives you loads of gain but no e.q. www.thomann.de/gb/pro_snake_tpy_2015_krr.htmThe other (professional) way is to put an unbalanced to balanced converter between the two, I think they make them battery powered and stereo, but then you need two sets of leads. It's a special kind of DI box. Something like this one: www.thomann.de/gb/art_cleanbox_pro.htmART make a good range of these boxes. Any help? JohnG. |
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Post by Jacqui on Jan 21, 2012 18:00:29 GMT
Ok, Yes it is a stereo lead coming out from the ipod, but if I put on the adapter like you show, (stereo into the mono socket on the amp, it won't work, well it does, but it all sounds full of echo and not right, only if I put it out slightly, so I guess it's mono then, but it still does not sound very good, and very low volume. I tried it in the Aux input and got no sound at all, I do get sound in the tape inputs but no EQ, so I think that lead may be the answer, I hope  Thanks for all that info John I'll check all those out tomorrow. Jacqui |
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Post by ziggy on Jan 21, 2012 20:47:16 GMT
I think it's because it's a stereo plug into a mono socket, the leads that i have suggested should work in the mono input. She said it was a stereo jack into the ipod ! Sorry, Frank. I was thinking she meant at the amp end, with a 6.5 stereo jack into one of the mono (1-6) inputs. |
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Post by modbod on Jan 22, 2012 0:44:33 GMT
JohnG,
Your contribution above is excellent but, without wishing to confuse Jacqui any further, perhaps you can explain something that is puzzling me. If the output from the IPOD is unbalanced I can understand the need for TS or mono plugs at the mixer end (under your definitions TS=mono and TS=unbalanced) but why or how is the signal from the IPOD coming through a 3.5mm stereo socket and matching stereo plug, which is TRS and balanced per your definitions above? Apologies if this is a "senior infants" question to you, but I'm just trying to understand the basic principles.
Regards, Michael
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Post by frankie on Jan 22, 2012 1:40:38 GMT
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Post by JohnG on Jan 22, 2012 9:30:48 GMT
JohnG, Your contribution above is excellent but, without wishing to confuse Jacqui any further, perhaps you can explain something that is puzzling me. If the output from the IPOD is unbalanced I can understand the need for TS or mono plugs at the mixer end (under your definitions TS=mono and TS=unbalanced) but why or how is the signal from the IPOD coming through a 3.5mm stereo socket and matching stereo plug, which is TRS and balanced per your definitions above? Apologies if this is a "senior infants" question to you, but I'm just trying to understand the basic principles. Regards, Michael Hi Michael, As always, over simplification in the explanation is the problem, for which I apologise. I did it to keep things simple. TS and TRS just describe the connections on the plug or in a matching socket. TS has connections for two leads in a cable, TRS has three. A typical mono, unbalanced signal just uses two leads. Often referred to as live and ground. Live goes to Tip, ground to Sleeve. Identical whether Left or Right channel. A stereo, unbalanced lead has four connections, left, left ground, right and right ground. In wiring it to a single socket we combine the grounds, since they're at the same signal level, and can therefore use a TRS jack with left usually going to the tip, right to the ring and ground to the sleeve. A balanced signal, however, has three leads per channel, two signal carrying leads (positive and negative) and a grounded shield. With a standard microphone, which uses such a balanced system, we normally use an XLR connector which has the two signal leads and a ground. But when carrying line level, balanced signals, it is more usual to use a jack plug connector. For +ve, -ve and shield we need three connectors and so we need a TRS plug, even though it's only carrying a mono signal! To carry a stereo balanced signal we need two TRS plugs one for left the other right. A further complication arises when we have a mixer that has an "insert" connector directly following the input stage, its socket is TRS but it uses one lead for send, the second for return and the sleeve is grounded. It needs a special "Y" connector for the insert effects unit. So, in summary a TS plug can only really be used for a mono signal (unless we decide to cheat and solder some of the wires together). A TRS plug can be used to carry left, right and ground of a stereo unbalanced signal OR one channel of a balanced signal +ve, -ve and shield (ground, earth). In the case we're discussing, the iPod has a mini TRS socket carrying a stereo unbalanced signal. The mixer/amp input sockets (7/8 and 9/10) are balanced TRS ones ... but our signal is unbalanced, so we connect each channel of the iPod output to a TS (mono) plug for input to the mixer. The convention is that the Tip is "hot" and the Ring is not. So when we plug a TS plug into a TRS socket, the ring and sleeve of the socket short together connecting the Ring of the socket to ground (and thereby losing the main advantage of balanced working, namely common mode rejection or, plainly put, resistance to interfering electrical noise). I don't know if that helps to clarify things or confuses them even more? Perhaps you can see why I tried to keep it simple initially? Regards, JohnG. P.S. If you want to understand what goes on in PA, the very best book to explain it all is The Sound Reinforcement Handbook written for Yamaha by Gary Davis and Ralph Jones. IMO there is no better book on the market. |
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Post by JohnG on Jan 22, 2012 10:03:00 GMT
Ok, Yes it is a stereo lead coming out from the ipod, but if I put on the adapter like you show, (stereo into the mono socket on the amp, it won't work, well it does, but it all sounds full of echo and not right, only if I put it out slightly, so I guess it's mono then, but it still does not sound very good, and very low volume. I tried it in the Aux input and got no sound at all, I do get sound in the tape inputs but no EQ, so I think that lead may be the answer, I hope Thanks for all that info John I'll check all those out tomorrow. Jacqui Hi Jacqui, Full of echo tells me that what's connected is the left and right, with no ground, into the socket of the mixer. What's needed is tip and sleeve from the iPod 3.5mm plug into the tip and sleeve of a TS 1/4" jack plugged into the mixer's left channel, then ring and sleeve from the iPod 3.5mm plug to the tip and sleeve of another 1/4" jack plug inserted into the mixer's right channel. As I wrote before. One problem is that the iPod is at domestic output level, which is -10dBV and you're using the pro level input on the mixer which is at +4dBu. Apart from being different signal levels there is also an impedance mismatch, the iPod expects to see a relatively high impedance whereas the PowerMate's inputs are at 600 ohm I expect. Not an ideal match, but they should work, just about. The match is correct at the 2 track input using phono sockets. Sorry to be a wet blanket. JohnG. |
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Post by modbod on Jan 22, 2012 13:55:42 GMT
JohnG
I really appreciate you taking the time to share your obvious expertise on this topic. It will take me a while to digest all you say but I will study it carefully and may even buy a copy of the book you mention.
Many thanks, Michael
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