Riots in the UK

[mark]

I have been following all the trouble in the UK on the internet and reading everyones comments. We recently suffered here in Vancouver with riots. The Police were quick to react and they are still looking for people who were caught on camera.I have to agree with all your comments.parent accountability,tougher laws.harder Policing.Its got to happen.

[Jacqui]

I'm so pleased to see you all have such strong views, I think the whole thing is just disgraceful and I can't understand what the police are hanging around for worrying about what they can and can't do, these are criminals for god sake, so treat them like that,
I heard on some radio station tonight while I was sitting in traffic, that they may not be allowed to publish the CCTV images of these criminals because of their human rights can you believe that?
They have psychiatrists now saying that these youths are only stealing because it's the only way they can get these things they are making a statement and a cry for help, they are suffering such hardship because they are unemployed, so hey lets all go out and steel some expensive electrical goods or some trainers because we feel a bit low today, I notice they were not stealing bread and butter to feed the family
Bring on the Water Cannons, the Rubber Bullets, the Cane and lets gets some discipline back into this country.

Jacqui

[Jacqui]

Oh I nearly forgot, one guy who appeared in court today was a school teacher.

SEE BELOW A teacher who looted a shop during the London riots was one of the first people to appear in court, defying the rioter stereotype of a disadvantaged inner-city youth.

More than 1,000 people were arrested in the London riots, leaving magistrates with a huge job as they work through the list of looters and vandals.

31-year-old teacher Alexis Bailey, from Battersea, was one of the first to appear in court, arrested for looting Richer Sounds in Southend Road, Croydon.

Bailey works full-time in a primary school in Stockwell and lives with his parents. For his part in London’s riots and looting, he was given bail and a curfew.

Courthouse staff have been working day and night to catch up with cases stemming from the riots.

[weegeo]

Well there we go British justice at it`s best!!! yesterday the PM said ANYONE convicted of rioting and or looting would face the FULL force of the law!!!! Hmmmm please read Jacqui`s post a school teacher was given bail and a curfew if the teachers are doing this what chance for the kids what a damn shame he should have been held in custody. Another thought i had was why where the rioters that were interviewed on national tv not arrested.
Kemo made a very true statement when he said that the community over here was working with the police and this has helped to go a long way in resolving our problems over here,how brilliant it was to see folks on the mainland bonding together to help clean up the mess left by these thugs and can i send condolence`s to the families of the 3 people that where needlessy killed in the hit and run.
Lets hope commonsense will now prevail

weegeo

[JohnG]

It's an interesting topic.

Did Fred Goodwin CEO of the Scottish banking group do more or less harm to people in Britain?
He now sits with rumoured to be a 6 million pension pot. What about other bankers who are still reaping huge bonuses while the rest of us see higher fuel costs, static wages, job losses an so on? What about Murdoch and his mob. He'll get away with his journalists hacking into mobile messages, and his fortune continues to grow, while the guy who tried to smack him with a shaving foam pie gets several weeks in prison. Is this justice?

I'm very far from condoning what has happened, I loathe and detest the destruction of other people's homes and livelihoods. I have nothing but utter contempt for these rioters and looters ... and for those of the MPs who lie and cheat their way to small fortunes. How did Mrs Thatcher become so rich? How did Blair do the same? They're all on huge index linked pensions too! And the head of the Met can take a 12,000 "gift" and get away with it too.

In fact Cameron's "sick society" starts with his cronies in Parliament and goes right through the senior management levels of most in the banking world and many other multi-nationals too. Stop the activities at that level or make them pay the price of failure.

I would have all the banker's bonuses taxed at 100% until the national debt is paid off! Certainly all those getting more than a few thousand.

It's no wonder that people are brassed off, but they should take it out on the people that have caused the problems in the first place, if they have to do it at all. Which of course they don't. But how do people fight back against the injustices that are being forced on the British people?

As usual it's just my 2d. worth and probably devalued anyway, like my pension, down by 30% due to the devaluation of the pound against the Euro.

Oh well, back to the bread and dripping!
JohnG.

P.S. Did you know that increased aggression is one of the symptoms of depression, especially in young men?

[JohnG]

A little story,

A couple of days ago I got a buzz from a friend who's an ex-teacher. He took early retirement a few years ago when it was possible. "best move I ever made!" was his comment. He taught in inner London, thought he could "make a difference."

Class sizes averaging 32, 20% of the children with little or no English. A persistent element that knew the only sanction he had for disruption was to make them leave the class. Just what they wanted, straight out onto the streets.

By his mid fifties he'd "had enough!" "Thank God I left before all these problems with cameras in mobile phones started" he said.

He told me about an ex colleague. Similar age to the one caught stealing. He gave up his car a year or two back because he could no longer afford to run it. Got caught this year by the above inflation rail fare increment. Got a letter recently saying his gas was going up by 20% and electricity by 10%. Knows he will end up paying more for a lower pension and a later retirement age. Landlord has just written putting up his rent.

He rang my friend to ask if he knew of any schools looking for teachers. He's had enough too.

Is that an excuse for stealing from Richer's? Of course it isn't.

Often we only see one side a the story though.
Thought it might give another perspective.
JohnG.

[steelfixer]

i have read all of the posts on this subject and some of you have got very good points i dont know how do resolve it what chance have got when the people who are running the country cant but i do know one thing the ones who are doing the looting are just thieves and opportunists who just want things for nothing and dont want to work for it not because society has gave them a raw deal BRIAN

[weegeo]

As usual John brings a level headed perspective to the debate and i can only agree with his reading of things,however as seen on tv the rioters seemed to be only concerned with taking all things electrical,jewellery and mobile phones as Jacqui has said they were`nt seen taking bread and butter to feed their families!!!were are they going to find the money to pay the electric to watch their new 50``plasma tv`s or the cash for their new mobile phone top up`s i guess it will come out of the benefit that you and i have spent years paying our taxes into!! I know from experience how hard it is to live on benefit but even on my worst times i never stole anything i agree with the comment this is just blatant theft and destruction out of badness.

The PM has just said that all rioters will be tracked down and they will feel the full force of the law hmm i wonder what that could mean especially when you look at the courts record on sentencing `hardline criminals`sex offenders get hardly any jail time at all murderers get `life` and walk free after 5/10 years all damn wrong bring back more hard sentences in line with the crime,my late mother when she was punishing me when i was wrong always told me `you did the crime now pay the fine`and i got punished in line with whatever i had done how will the courts punish the people that burned out peoples homes whilst they where still in them surely thats akin to attempted murder!!! This whole rioting thing really gets up my nose the whole country will now have to pay for the damage these twats have done our taxes will have to go up somewhere to cover the bill community grants will be cut and the good causes will now have to wait thats the real price of this outrage.

weegeo------------ stepping off the soapbox with an apology to all

[themd21]

Hi All

There's an i-petition online demanding that all those convicted of criminal activity during the riots should be stripped of all social and welfare benefits.
It needs 100,000 signatures before it can go to parliment.Yesterday it already had 89,000+.
Why should the tax payer fund those who would violently wreck, loot and steal. I have zero sympathy for those who take 100% from society and give nothing but pain and heartache in return.
Gonna stop there cause I feel such anger.

Jimmy

[JohnG]

Only one problem with taking away all benefits, Jimmy, is that they only then have one way of living, by criminal activity. More burglary, more muggings and so on.

I know, you're going to say, make them go out and get a job.
Would you employ someone who steals and commits arson with a severe attitude problem and carries a knife or a gun? Not me.
So who will give them a job? Will you?

Okay stick them in prison. We don't have enough spaces, and it costs 40 to 60,000 a year to keep someone in prison. Taxpayer's money. 800 people at say 50,000 a year = 40 million. D'you want to pay more tax to keep them there. But first we have to build some more prisons. Can I build one in the street where you live?

The only real solution is to equip these people with job and social skills. You don't improve people's attitude by taking everything away. Just how brassed off do we all feel with the rises in all prices in the last year? They need to be made (somehow) to understand that their behaviour is antisocial and given the skills to be part of a normal society. And that by doing that they'll have a better quality of life. It's promises of better things that motivates most of us.

And don't think I'm talking of mollycoddling these criminals. I'm no bleeding heart liberal. No, I'm saying make it tough, but with a strong light at the end of the tunnel.

It's because kids don't learn these things from their parents at an early enough age to make them knuckle down at school, that and peer group pressure, that makes them come to adolescence with no education, many barely able to read or write, and with an attitude problem. In short, unemployable.

But I do agree, whatever we are doing right now just isn't working.
JohnG.

[themd21]

Hi John

John what you advocate is utopia in a virtual world, but never in the real world.
I live in a working class area of Belfast which came through hard times and violence. Criminalised gangs just dont work for a living.
I know guys who would scam, steal and kill before they would do a days work. They just don't like gettin up early in the morning. If well paid jobs were in abundance they still wouldn't take one. Why should they when they can steal it from someone else.They spend most of their time trying to scam more benefits out of the system. They're the only ones who can afford to drink in bars. Working men have bills and mortgages to pay.
Sorry for being Mr Angry John but after a while it gets to you.

Jimmy

[JohnG]

Believe me, Jimmy, I do know where you're coming from with this, and I can fully understand why you're Mr Angry. Believe me I have no sympathy for rioters and crooks and arsonists, none at all.

But if you took away these people's benefits do you really believe they'd go out and get a job?
They'd just get up to more robbing and mugging and cheating surely? The majority are unemployable even if they were prepared to work.

And with examples like Fred Goodwin, who proves you can cheat a whole country and get away with it, what hope do we have? When the banks can pay massive bonuses before they've even repaid their defaults, how do we persuade people that lying and cheating is not the correct way to behave?

No, the whole system says that if you have a big enough pot of gold you can get away with anything. And it really doesn't matter how you get that pot of gold, because once you have it you're untouchable.

I can't remember who it was said "show me a wealthy man and I'll show you a man with something to hide."

Somehow we need to change the system. What I ask when I see people acting like this is "why"? The answer seems to be at the moment "gangs." So I ask again "why gangs?" The answer some give is different ethnic communities. "why?" It's only if we can try to sort out some of the underlying problems that we stand a chance of finding some solutions. Just maybe.

I see the same problem where I live with Russian and Turkish communities. Again criminality is starting to grow here and within some years it wouldn't surprise me if similar things start to happen.

Anyone remember Enoch Powell's speech about "rivers of blood?" He was talking about the segregation of communities and building tensions between them. Perhaps he doesn't sound so daft now as he did then. Most people thought he was being racist but actually he was trying to ring alarm bells.

I dunno Jimmy. It all makes me as angry as hell too, but I'd like to believe we could find some sort of solution to the worst of it. Maybe by giving these people benefits we stop some of the criminal activity that might otherwise go on.

And it's only my 2d anyway!
JohnG.

[triton]

Instead of pussy-footing around waiting for fat cat lawyers to quote human rights laws stick em all in uniform and send them to afghanistan for 5 years

[geraint]

This is no protest, its Anarchy.
Those of you who know my background will be aware that I have extensive experience in the criminal field.
These idiots are criminals and nothing more. The Crown Prosecution Service will be reluctant to proceed with many of the charges, and even the ones they do go forward with will be dealt with leniently because there is no room in our Prisons for these criminals.
I am not a racist person at all, and in fact having watched the footage on TV, I have the utmost respect and sympathy for our Asian Community.
The time has come for someone to stand up and say that the majority of those involved are the PSEUDO African Carribean youths who think that the world owes them a living.
They are Natives of this country, having been born here, but for whatever reason, have developed a massive chip on their shoulders, and any challenge to their attitude is met with chants of Racicsm.
I am putting my head on the block by airing these views, which I have also put to the national press, but I am absolutely fuming that no-one will grasp this nettle.

[themd21]

I really was a bit reluctant to think this,but maybe old Enoch Powell did have an insight into what future relationships within our communities would be like