Attacks against Indians in Australia

[shyamwestwind]

I personally feel this has been hyped up, disgustingly by the Media and a whole lot of fuss and furore has been made out of incidents which could happen anywhere in the world.
It is, indeed, sad that many uneducated goons have gone abroad looking for jobs, but in the guise of university students. After hearing a lot of my good friends living in Australia, I note that many meaningless, farcical institutions have mushroomed in Australia offering "University Education" in various fields. These are of no value at all and are only money making rackets and I find it very strange that the Australian Government have not taken cognisance of this and have given them authorisation to start these Universities.
I remember when my daughter went to Melbourne for Media Studies at the La Trobe Uni, after completing her B.A. Degree here, she was required to pass the TOEFL, which she did very easily as English has been our "father tongue"
None of the student seen and heard protesting in Melbourne could speak English properly, so how did they get in ?
A foreigner in the U.S pr U.K. or Australia, akll English speaking countries, should know English to be able to merge with the local population . If they cannot talk English they will never be able to relate to the locals and integrate with them.My daughter did not have a minutes problem when she was there and got on very very well with her Australian colleagues and friends there. It was just like a home away from home and she has always praised the country and the people. and she felt richer for the experience.
Words like PLEASE and SORRY and MAY I ? are all commonplace pleasantries and are part of the English language and a part of the culture in these countries and it is indeed very sad that people from our part of the world chose to "migrate" to other lands and decide to live within their community and chose to live isolated from the country they chose to study or earn their living.
The Australian Government needs to examine the question of issuing licences to farcical study centres and "universities"
Most importantly, the Media , in both our countries, needs to show restraint on their unscrpulous reporting
I would love to visit, study in or work in other beautiful countries around this good world of ours. I would love to share my culture with them and love to soak in their cultures. I would love to love them and let them love me, but if I cannot do these things, I should stay where I am and not venture out to cause hurt or be hurt.

[Tubbs]

Interesting Shyam, but don't don't you think that Poverty is forcing these so called "Uneducated Goons" to go abroad in the first place? Not everyone can afford the privelige of paid foreign education, take Dubai, the construction sector is making Indian migrants to live in out of town settlements which amount to nothing more than shanty towns, enticed by the promise of good wages and better lives, these poor workers are in many instances worse off than being back home....lots of foreign workers have graced our shores here in Ireland the last few years, a lot with little or no English and they have integrated very well......i'm sorry but your comments are in my opinion very snobbish, and i am very surprised by it.

[sweeney]

Hi Shyam! I read your post and I entirely agree with you. As you know my country has been and still is a hotbed for religious intolerence. For the past forty years the so called Christians on both sides of our divided people found any excuse to attack each other, discriminate against each other, and murder each other. The religious leaders on both sides were non existent in their condemmnation of these happenings. Oh yes! When some terrible atrocity would take place they would get up on their reigious perches, pay some lip service and condemn it. Nothing would be heard from them till the next killing or bombing. They had either no interest or secretly within their hearts aligned themselves with one side or the other. There was never a joint all inclusive Christian strategy to deal with these terrible happenings in our lovely land or a coming together to try and deal with the underlying hatred they have for each other. The Lord Jesus the Leader whose teaching these so called religious leaders were ordained to make sure his people lived by was badly let down by these people on both sides. All of his teachings without exception condemned what was taking place in our land. The bombings and killings have almost stopped but these thugs on both sides have now turned on the imigrants. The media have once again have moved their portable transmitters and Sat Dishes back on to our streets. My late father once said that if you built a wall around about four areas of where I come from, Let no TV, Newspaper reporters, or journalists of any kind in or out the troubles would be over in six months.. There is some logic in his theory, as these things seem to ignite in certain areas and like Swine Flu slowly worm it's way into all other parts. To these so called Religious Leaders I will use the words of the the man they profess to love and follow......" Because of you men speak evil of me." To the Two Governments and political leaders and thugs that carry out these acts I will say "Shame on you." ..........Gerry

Ole Sweeney will now climb down from his soap box.

[steveb]

Hi shyam,
It is very sad that these sort of attacks happen at all. It all started in Melbourne and then the trouble moved to Sydney when some of the Indian people said that were attack by a group of Lebanese Muslims. It then become very nasty when a crowd of people massed in the streets and demanded that the police take more action regarding reports that the Muslims were attacking the Indian people at Parramatta in Sydney. Things have now quietened down somewhat. We can only hope that this type of indident doesn't raise it's ugly head again.

[Tubbs]

I think this is starting to go off topic already, i think what Shyam is trying to say is that only educated middle-class people should be allowed to study abroad?? Thats how i am reading it anyway.

I totally agree with Sweeney's post, a damned disgrace what happened to the Romanians, but i think Shyam needs to enlighten us further on his comments. I personally think these attacks by young Aussie yobs are a disgrace, and while i do not believe Australia to be a racist country i think that both middle-class and in Shyams words "uneducated goons" should be treated equally and fairly and that the yobs who battered these poor people get whats coming to them.

[Emerald Midi]

Other than from this forum I do not know Shyam, so I am not aware of his individual, personal circumstances in India. I am certainly not suggesting he is in anyway a follower of what I am about to write about.

Many in India subscribe to the “caste” system; this is where everyone’s status in life is dependent on the circumstance to which they are born.

I do not know as much about this system at all but from the little I understand, if someone happens to be born into what is referred to as “the Untouchable” then according to some they are to be treated as essentially the lowest of the low and only fit for such jobs as cleaning out toilets, or other “occupations” that those living a more privileged existence might never do.

According to some of these more “privileged” people the only way an “Untouchable” can hope to live more comfortably is to hope they are born into a better life in a future existence.

For more accurate information on the Caste system please visit the following link:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_caste_system

[Tubbs]

Well without offending anyones customs or traditions the "caste" system seems very draconian Pat. A very interesting observation though mate.

Educational qualifications are for everyone, Rich or Poor, in fact the worlds best scholars tend to come from poor upbringings. These poorer Indian migrants have as much right to be in Australia or any other Country as their richer equals.

[Emerald Midi]

Well said, Gerry.

The traditions of some cultures may seem out of sync with what we might be more familiar with, but when one is accustomed to the notion of equality for all people regardless of their background, religious beliefs, or ethnicity then naturally such customs will seem primitive.

Over 2500 Lord Buddha, an Indian, rejected the whole Caste system because he thought it to be unfair and unjust. I find myself identifying strongly with this view.

[shyamwestwind]

A GENUINE student, whether rich or poor has many opportunities to pursue his studies abroad and there are many sources available to fund this education abroad, The Banks in India are only too willing to give loans for this purpose and they even offer a lower affordable rate of interest.
Education today is made affordable to the underprivileged . Opporunities are given to genuine, worthy students who will use the loans judiciously to further their education. India has been very encouraging in this sector.
I have no claims to snobbishness as I can ill afford to don this dubious crown. My reference to "uneducated goons" is not in relation to their financial poverty, but more to their poverty of values and principles. Most of the so called students who have gone abroad , have gone to look for jobs and their admission to technical "colleges" is farcical. A minimum wage of 20 AUD per hour works out to about 80 to 100 dollars per day which, if converted works out to Rs.4000/- per day. That looks like BIG money to them. Its just the lure of such big money that brings them there and its an entry through the back door.
I dont wish to be misunderstood here, about the right to education for anyone, rich or poor, BUT this should be genuine.
The foreign workers who, as Gerry says, have integrated well with the population in Ireland have, obviously had the wealth of virtues, principles and propriety in them.. That itself is education.
The workers in Dubai, have gone there to toil and to send valuable money to their families back home. There is no shame in that and if they choose to stay in dwellings, its only because they want to save as much as they can to send to their loved ones at home. They could, if they wanted to, live lavishly and flaunt their new found riches to everyone.
This is what I understand from my many friends in Australia, is happening. An Indian is basically a hard working guy and it could irk the local Australian guy to see him flash his fancy mobile or i-pod and his arrogance.
It is this lack of "education" I am talking about. I guess I should have called it lack of civility and un civic goons, The rub came in because it was related to the "educational" institutes which have sprung up in Australia, used as a back door to illegal job opprtunities.

[shyamwestwind]

I chose to post this separately to respond to Pat's observation on the caste system in India. Though the caste system is there, it is totally wrong to say that the only way an “Untouchable” can hope to live more comfortably is to hope they are born into a better life in a future existence.
Those days have gone decades ago. There is no such person as an untouchable now and many millions of these "backward" classes are now in high positions in the Government and other Corporates. We have very highly respected scholars, doctors and Corporate giants from these "backward communities"
I dont think this has any relevance to the original post as the reference to the behaviour of the Indian "students" in Australia was not sourced from caste consciousness

[Emerald Midi]

Jun 18, 2009 20:56:43 GMT shyamwestwind said:

I chose to post this separately to respond to Pat's observation on the caste system in India. Though the caste system is there, it is totally wrong to say that the only way an “Untouchable” can hope to live more comfortably is to hope they are born into a better life in a future existence.
Those days have gone decades ago. There is no such person as an untouchable now and many millions of these "backward" classes are now in high positions in the Government and other Corporates. We have very highly respected scholars, doctors and Corporate giants from these "backward communities"
I dont think this has any relevance to the original post as the reference to the behaviour of the Indian "students" in Australia was not sourced from caste consciousness

That is excellent news, Shyam. It has been a number of years since I looked into the subject so it is encouraging to learn things are changing in this respect, but in any case such antiquated ways are well rid of in my view.

Incidentally, I discover this superb piece which supports what you said and is very well worth reading:

www.factsaboutindia.org/caste-system-india.htm

[Tubbs]

I see where you are coming from now Shyam, i was a little confused with the original wording as to what the topic was really about, just in relation to the workers in Dubai however, most of these are being paid peanuts, yes they are lured there under the pretence of good money but the reality is they end up living in dire conditions with a lot of them not being able to afford to even get back home, so they do not choose to live like that, they have to.

One has to question though why are these people using these false education facilities in order to get illegal work? Needs obviously force them to do this.

[weegeo]

Quite an interesting topic from Shyam once again, i first read it very early this morning but just couldn`t focus on it think i have now so here goes lol Firstly it seems to be the `norm` now for people wanting to move countries they tend to apply for a place at a university or a college of further education for spme course or other just to `get in` and then a number off them abscond and start to work illegally and it seems that this is just being accepted, i agree that genuine folks want to come here to be educated and in doing that raise their prospects in life and they should be welcomed and given every opportunity to advance their studies, education is there for the masses no matter what their level of IQ would be so in this i am in total agreement with Shyam. This is where i get a little of topic i`m afraid i have to take issue with sweeney over some off his comments, i always thought that we were to keep religion out of our posts as it may upset some of our members well he has`nt upset me with what he has said excepting that his comments are way to far off the mark.
To put forward that the `christians`are in some way responsible for the troubles and problems that we have had is just a little too much to say and infact it could open the way for a great theological discussion on just why it is wrong lol but suffice to say that our troubles were brought on by one section of the community that decided their future lay outside of the British Rule this caused the other part of the community that want to stay British to fight back the result was total turmoil and heartache ppl of all ages lost their lives but at least we are trying to move on.
Now as to the trouble that is happening just now once again this is not being lead by the `christians` but rather by a bunch of nonames who get some sick kick from causing violence to the weaker of those amongst us this will i think grow into such a large problem because i think it has been mishandled as i understand it a large portion of these folks want to go back home and i think that if that is what they want then their embassy should help them home, those that want to stay should be afforded the full protection of the law here i`m not sure that putting them right at the top of the housing list is being helpful as this seems to be causing more trouble with those folks that already on the housing list. Final point on the `present`trouble it has come to light that these folks would not be welcome back in their own country so it would seem that they will be allowed to stay here, to get back to the topic i wonder can anyone see a link in what i have just said to our friend Shyam`s original post i.e how many came on looking for education but instead went looking for work

weegeo------------- making room on the soapbox

[shyamwestwind]

Sweenie wrote in his post
"The media have once again have moved their portable transmitters and Sat Dishes back on to our streets. My late father once said that if you built a wall around about four areas of where I come from, Let no TV, Newspaper reporters, or journalists of any kind in or out the troubles would be over in six months"
This is true - the Media seem to be overplaying theiir importance and they need to be muzzled a bit,.. ........ I think this deserves a new thread !
I'm glad I'm being understood ........ I guess I chose the wrong words.

[sweeney]

Hi folks!! I was away for a few days hence I never got back on site to see how Shyam’s topic was getting on. I read all the posts this morning and low and behold I find myself in trouble again. There are certain terms within my post that seem to have become an issue so I will clear this up.

1. I never said at any time that Christians were the cause of the troubles in our land. If you read it again you will find the term I used was So Called Christians. I did not say Born Again Christians, Practicing Christians nor did I say Committed Christians... The term I was careful to use was So called Christians... 99.9% of the people in our country from both persuasions if questioned will tell you that they are Christians. Just the same as the world calls the peoples of other lands, religious groups, and faiths, Muslim. Seik. Hindu, Etc: Etc: I would go as far to say, that if questioned these peoples would confirm this. They would say that they were Hindu or Muslim Etc: albeit they might never have been in a Mosque, Temple, or had taken part in any other form of worship for a great length of time, if ever, yet they will tell you that they are of these faiths. This is why I in my post used the term So Called.

2. I was surprised to see a fellow citizen of our land, (At least I think he is as he used the terms “Troubles we have had and Our Troubles”) say the cause of conflict was one section of our community wanting to undo the ties we have with Britain. I will say this that for most of the minority people in this part of our land a United Ireland is a genuine aspiration. This is not a crime, but for years it was treated as one. People were Jailed or Interned for holding such views. Now getting back to his comment.
In 1969 within our province there was wide spread systematic and blatant discrimination against the minority of the population by the majority in Jobs, Housing, and the constitutional right to vote. These laws were enforced with heavy handedness by the Police Force and a Sub Police Force called the B Specials, and in 1966 the emergence of a majority paramilitary force. These organizations were answerable to no one as they were comprised from mostly that section of the population. In 1968 the then Civil Rights took up a challenge to achieve equal rights for all the people living in this place. They took to the streets in peaceful protest only to be met with attacks from Police, B Specials and Paramilitaries. This soon escalated resulting in minority areas being attacked. Houses and shops were burnt and almost 2000 people were displaced. The Then British PM had to send in troops to protect the minority. This was the start of the current conflict in our land. Hope this post clears up a few misunderstandings

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles

Ole Sweeney getting off the soap box once again