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Post by kenja on Mar 24, 2009 12:52:59 GMT
Hi all, here's a conundrum I've been pondering:
When a midi is converted to either mp3 or wav format, how much does the end result depend on the quality of the sound card in the midi playing device, or are there other factors at play here?
Ken
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Post by JohnG on Mar 24, 2009 13:15:25 GMT
Hi all, here's a conundrum I've been pondering: When a midi is converted to either mp3 or wav format, how much does the end result depend on the quality of the sound card in the midi playing device, or are there other factors at play here? Ken Hi Ken, Well yes and no. If you are converting it from MIDI using a soundfont that is stored on the card it will have an effect. If you are playing it back through speakers attached to the PC ditto. If you use an external sound module and bring the audio back in through the sound card again ditto. If however you use something like Roland VSC (or a VSTi) to convert the file then another utility say RazorLame to convert to mp3 then put the file onto a CD or into an mp3 player then no. It depends upon the route. For me, I go USB out to Yamaha UW500 (audio / MIDI interface), then special "to host" MIDI cord to a Yamaha MU1000, optical digital audio out of that back into the UW500, then USB back to wav file on the PC. No soundcard involvement at all. RazorLAME takes care of the wav to mp3 conversion if I need it. Does that help at all? JohnG. |
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Post by kenja on Mar 24, 2009 14:52:01 GMT
Thanks John but I can't say I quite understand and it seems complicated.
I have been playing the midi in real time direct from a QY700 into my laptop using CoolEdit Pro, then saving the recording as a wav file (or mp3). The result seems to sound ok but...
I am assuming the sound card / sound generator in the QY700 is responsible for the sound quality and not the computer although I have a decent sound card in that.
Now I know you can pay £50 or £500 or more for a sound card so hence the question.
Sometimes sounds like guitars can sound as synthetic as the original midi so is this a result of the conversion process or the ability of the sequencer program to produce a more realistic sound?
There's lots to this it seems, so the motto at the bottom of your post is very apt!
Cheers, Ken
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Post by levi2 on Mar 24, 2009 18:55:30 GMT
i use a yamaha mu50 tone generator play midis on laptop which is connected to the mu50 via usb and midi leads then i have audio out left /right from the mu50 direct to my minidisk which i record onto i have rendered mp3 using the yamahaxg plugin and the edirol hyper canvas both sound great with extra fx on them but for me you cant beat the sounds from a external device unless its about 20 years old lol. Every sound canvas or virtual voice has good /bad sounds ie the hyper canvas is better than the yamaha softsynth for accoustic guitar chior voices some strings but for bass drums brass the yamaha for me is better just my own opinion go to this link for a demo i done this is done with a mixture of yamaha softsynth and edirol hyper canvas rendered to mp3 www.4shared.com/file/91731971/3d4c2239/hot_stuff.html |
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Post by kenja on Mar 24, 2009 19:10:32 GMT
Wow, that sounds fantastic! I have got to look at this further.
But tell me - the QY700 is a great (I am told) tone generator so should I be ok recording directly from this either to the laptop or direct to minidisk?
I don't know what a MU50 is but I will look it up.
Cheers, Ken
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Post by levi2 on Mar 24, 2009 21:55:56 GMT
the mu50 is just a sound module i record direct to minidisk and use EQs on mixer when gigging
any other fx ie reverb chorus is done on a sequncer prog on me laptop b4 i record the sounds you were hearing are not from my mu50 but from a yamaha plugin that runs in seq progs like mixcraft sonar etc etc the QY700 was produced after the mu50 so the sounds should be better
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Post by JohnG on Mar 25, 2009 8:24:22 GMT
Thanks John but I can't say I quite understand and it seems complicated. Perhaps my answer was over complicated. It was used to show how I could avoid using the sound card on the PC at all. The sound chip on a laptop and the associated electronic circuits are really not of the best quality. They have been designed for minimal size and weight. Which usually means lack of quality and inadequate screening against interference. Having said that they can produce some reasonable results, but they can usually be improved upon. Yes the sound generator (in your case the QY700) is responsible for the initial quality of the sound. Every part of the audio chain used to record the sound will then degrade that sound slightly. By how much and how noticeable that is depends on the device. Computers generate a lot of noise, pick up a radio and take it near a computer, especially on an A.M. waveband, and listen. All this will have some effect on the quality. Aha, now we are getting to the core of the problem. Realism of the sound. A guitar, as we hear it most often today, is a heavily "processed" sound. It goes through an amp that produces distortion, then through effects pedals, maybe some chorus, then another distortion unit, not to mention lots of pitch bend. The trick is to experiment with the XG effects to make a guitar sound right. Take a listen to the heavily processed sound of the guitar in this track www.4shared.com/file/71788485/aa330515/XGelargo.html. Produced from a MIDI file. As far as I am aware the QY700 is a pretty reasonable XG instrument (I'd have to look up what effects processors it has on board) but it should be able to make a good guitar sound with suitable effects. ... Yes, it has an "amp simulator", "distortion" and "overdrive" three of the main effects used with a rock guitar. JohnG. |
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Post by kenja on Mar 25, 2009 9:42:14 GMT
Many thanks again John, you are being really helpful.
Yes you are right, the sound quality I refer to is mainly to do with realism and not EQ or effects. Drums are easy (dare I say that?) to get realistic but guitars (and some other instruments) are not.
I think a lot has to do with how it is "played". For instance a strummed guitar in a live situation has a "human quality" and by this I mean that the strumming varies. The mechanical strumming on a midi track is so even it just doesn't sound right somehow.
Now I remember that Guitar Pro had something called a "Realism Engine" or something like that but I'm not sure how it worked as I don't use it any more but it gave some variance to the instrument thus introducing a "human" element.
I think distorted or overdriven guitars are easier but again lack a "human" element.
Ken
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