record guitar to pc

[Jacqui]

Hi Guys
Just after some info, I've a few midi tracks that need some live guitar added, probably a rhythm and lead, I'm not sure how to do this without too much technical stuff, I'm hoping I have someone to do the Guitar that's the hard bit for me! ;D then how best to get it recorded onto the track, I have an Alesis Mixer with USB, so would that be a way to record to pc? so would I record the midi first as an MP3 with the Guitar muted, then play it on the pc and record live guitar, or is there a better way to do this like record it to mini disc, I'm not sure how to get the separate Guitar tracks and levels? hope someone can help and maybe explain an Easy way for me? :)if there is one

Got Sonar 3 if that's something I could use

Jacqui

[oldsage]

do you want a midi track or an mp3???,if your putting it onto a mini-disc i,m assuming you want an mp3.if not you want a midi program and a midi in to your pc to record a track.alternatively get some one with an arranger keyboard put the midi in and add an extra track with the guitar parts on,then save it as a midi file. Hope this is of some help to you. P.S if you want it live,as an mp3,play your midi through the keyboard or a DAW and record it.i use mixcraft 5,you can download a full demo from them to try out.just load in your final mp3,or the midi,then plug the guitar from the alesis through line in,and record.You just need to adjust the sound to your own taste.then export as an Mp3..................Steve

[Jacqui]

Hi Steve
What I want is to record it as an MP3 from a midi file, with live guitar added to the track, I tried plugging in the Alesis mixer to the pc, but don't seem to hear any sound when we play into it and into the pc
it has USB, but I'm not sure if anything else should be plugged in to get the sound from it to pc, you do get sound if you just plug out of the mixer into the computer line in, but then you get a bit of hissing sound, I thought the usb would eliminate that.
We also want to record two guitar parts if possible,

[steveb]

Hi Jacqui,

JohnG might be the person to help you with this issue. However, there is some software called 'Pro Tools' that may help you with this also. If you want to record anything onto a computer you need a software program to record to your computer. I have used it myself and had have some success with it. Sorry I can't be any more helpful.

[JohnG]

Hi Jacqui,

If you could let me know what Alesis mixer you're using I can check out its capabilities. Is it the Multimix 8 USB?
This has no DI for a guitar, so it depends how you're hoping to input the signal. A little more info here would help. An electronic signal mismatch here may be causing the hiss you describe.

Just a quick reply with some ideas for you.
1) You could play the MIDI backing track through headphones to the guitarist and, hopefully using the same software if it supports MIDI and audio, record the guitarists audio output to an audio track, wav not mp3 yet (mono or stereo). (The Multimix comes with Cubase LE which should do the job well.) Then convert the MIDI to wav.

But probably better:
2) Render the MIDI down to a wav file (not mp3 yet) and play that back through headphones so the guitarist can play along to it. Again record his signal as a wav file alongside the existing audio backing track (separate tracks). Cubase LE will let you do this too. In fact it may take several 'takes' perfecting each verse, chorus, solo etc. each recorded to a separate audio track.

You now have two, or more, audio files (wav) which need to be combined in a mix. You may have to trim bits of the audio of the various 'takes' of the guitarists work. This can be done in Cubase LE too I believe. The various tracks may need some time alignment, another Cubase capability.

Having talked Cubase, rereading your OP, I notice you have Sonar 3. You should be able to do all this using that software too.

Then it's a case of mixing the whole down to one stereo track, still wav.

Only when you have what you want do you then you convert it to mp3.

It's exactly matches what is done in a recording studio.

It's just a brief synopsis, I hope it helps.
Regards,
JohnG.

[Jacqui]

Hi John

Thanks for the info I think I'll need to read it through a few times to absorb it properly
Yes it's the Alesis 8 usb, I'm pretty sure we have the software disc, I thought the Sonar 3 Cubase was the same kind of thing, obviously not?

We just put the Guitar into the Line In.

What I'm not sure of is do I need more leads plugged into the PC other than the USB, we do hear sound via Aux In on my soundcard, but I thought the usb would carry all the sound from the mixer to the PC.

[JohnG]

Hi Jacqui,

Perhaps you missed the later bit, about 2/3rds down, in which I said sorry, Sonar 3 should be fine. And it should.

Are you plugging the guitar pickup output straight into the line in, or are you going via a guitar amp of some kind? The reason I ask is because a guitar pickup electrically is not the same as, for instance, the line output of a keyboard. There is an impedance and an amplitude mismatch. If you wish to record a guitar it may be better to go via a line out on the guitar amp, if it has one.

Otherwise you need a DI box which will plug usually into an microphone input on the mixing desk. I expect you're having to turn the guitar channel to full gain to get any signal? That's why you're getting hiss.

Technical stuff.
Essentially a guitar pickup needs to see a very high resistance. A line input usually provides a load of around 600 ohms. A microphone input load is around 3,000 ohms, whereas a guitar needs to see a load of around 10,000 minimum to 500,000 ohms (500 kilohms or 0.5 megohms).

If you visit the Alesis web site you will notice they have the iO2 Express and the iO4 which specifically cater for guitar input. There you can switch the line input into guitar mode. It switches in a changed impedance and greater gain (amplification) than for line level.

The standard Multimix does not have the guitar mode switch and therefore cannot provide a correct match for the guitar. So to make good recordings you need a DI box to compliment the mixer. They can be had for as little as 25 pounds or so.

If you go to the Thomann cyberstore, hit the 'guit/bass' tab, then the 'accessories' picture, then 'DI-boxes', you'll find them at all different price levels.

Once you've got the electrical 'gubbins' sorted, you should have little trouble recording via USB to an audio track in Sonar 3.

I hope this clarifies rather than muddying?
Any further questions please ask away.
JohnG.

[Jacqui]

Hi John
I tried the Alesis again on the pc, the new hardware found signal comes up and it's looking for software I found the disc that came with the Alessis and installed it, it said successfully installed, but with just the USB plugged in I don't hear anything going to or from the PC, I've tried plugging in an external mini disc into the line in and still don't hear anything to PC, although it is going into the mixer, I can see that on the led monitor light and also hear it on the headphones, so I wondering if I have to select something on the soundcard, I've taken some snapshots and will email them to you, in case you can see anything I'm missing.

We also have something called a Line 6, TonePort UX1 , although I don't think they are made now, a newer model has taken over and that has usb and a disc with it with Software Live Lite 4 and Gear Box 3, or someone lent me something called a Zoom A2 Effects pedal, but that does not have a USB. I email mail you those photos John. Jacqui

[JohnG]

Hi Jacqui,

What is sent via USB from the Alesis multimix to the PC is what comes out of the Main Mix of the mixer according to the manual.

So plug in the mini disk player, set the gain control(s) on the Alesis according to the info on page 8 of the reference manual and then turn up the level control for the channel(s) you are using to get a decent level. Then turn up the main mix control. Try to get the LEDs to peak around 0 to +3dB, no more. A good level of signal should now be going through USB to the PC.

In the Control Panel - Sounds and Audio Devices - in the Audio tab, you are currently sending sound created in the PC out to the Alesis (according to the pics you sent me). I don't think you want that, so Sound Playback should be going to whatever your PC speakers are connected to.

What you want to do is record from the Alesis, so set the Sound Recording default device to the USB audio input (whatever Alesis calls it). With that setting you should now be able to hear what is coming from the Main Mix on the PC speakers.

Once you have that you can go to Sonar and set an audio channel to record from that same recording input.

Let me know how you get on.

I'll take a look at the other devices (Line 6 etc.) and come back.
Good luck.
JohnG.

[Jacqui]

Thanks John I'll check those settings out tomorrow.

[Jacqui]

No getting nothing through the USB

[JohnG]

Hi Jacqui,

Unfortunately I can't diagnose a problem with no information.
You have to tell me what you did.

Have you got a signal coming from the Main Mix? Are the leds lighting up on the mixer to show the presence of a signal.
What have you got set up now in Sounds and Audio Devices under the Audio tab?
Especially, what are the settings now for Sound Recording and for Sound Playback?

I don't own an Alesis mixer Jacqui, I'm just working from the manual.

This is what I'd do.
Plug the Alesis USB port into the PC and make sure it loads the appropriate drivers for XP or Vista or whatever you're using.
When it's done that reboot Windows.
Check that you can see the USB audio input and output drivers by using Control Panel - Sounds and Audio Devices - Audio tab. Then select the correct driver from the drop down list for the Alesis in the Sound Recording default device.
Have the Sound Playback going to the PC speakers as before.

This is the procedure for my current mixing desk and for every one I've used to date (quite a few), except when doing a live stage show where the various mics are being faded in and out as people come on and go off stage.

Turn the gain, usually the very top rotary control knob, just below the mic and line input sockets, on the mixing 'strip' all the way down to zero (or infinity).
Turn the channel level control either a rotary knob or a fader at the bottom of the channel strip all the way down too.

Set all the EQ to centre. Turn down any pre or post sends.

Plug in the device, e.g. a mini disk. If the device has 'line out' socket, or the output can be set to 'line out' (both my Sony mini-disk players can) use that rather than a headphone signal. If you have to use headphone signal, turn the volume almost all of the way up.

Warning. Don't forget to turn it back to headphone or to turn the volume back down before using headphones again. Deafness can ensue if not!!!

Now set a rather loud series of songs playing back through the mini-disk player.
Turn up the gain control until the peak led (next to the pan control on the Alesis) flickers. That's too much. Gradually, very gradually, turn the gain control down until the led just flickers, very rarely, on a very loud peak. This is likely a very small adjustment.

Now you've got a sufficient level of signal, without overload, coming through the channel pre-amp. Turn up the channel level knob or fader to half way first of all. You should be able to move that up to about 2/3rds or even 3/4ths without problem, actually.

Now you have the channel pre-amp sending a good level of signal to the mixer buss.

Now begin to push up, or raise, the level control of the Main Mix. Push this up gradually until (a) you have enough volume through the speakers or (b) you have around 0db indicated on the led meters for the USB send. If it goes occasionally, quite rarely, into the +3dB mark, don't worry too much.

Now we have a good level of signal going from the mixer buss to the ADC (audio to digital converter) prior to being sent to the USB interface.

Now we could use Windows Sound Recorder to test whether the signal is arriving OK. It's an accessory in the Entertainment directory. Providing we've set the defaults correctly, we should be able to record the output of the mini-disk into a Windows wav file.

Any help?
JohnG.

[Jacqui]

OK John
I'll try again on my other pc see if I can sort it, will let you know the outcome

Jacqui

[Jacqui]

OK here is where I'm up to...
I plugged the Alessis into my pc with the creative soundcard, it installed all the drivers automatically and said working ok.
Under the Audio Tab in Sounds, set sound playback to USB Audio Codec, & sound recording USB Audio Codec.
Played into the pc but could not hear anything, although I could hear it on the headphones from Alesis, recorded it in onboard windows recorder and it recorded ok, and I can see it as a wav file in the box, I also managed to record in the Creative player, but again don't hear anything from the pc speakers only via the mixer headphones. I can't record anything that is playing on the pc though, the sounds have to come from an external player, I do hear it play back to the Mixer from pc, but the recorder on the pc does not pick up the sound.
I don't know where the sound settings for Audio recording are in Sonar 3 ?
if I try and open that application while the usb mixer is plugged in I get a pop up box that says-The following drivers do not support the current audio format, or are in use by another application, please chose whether you want to disable them or use them anyway, then if I play a midi in sonar it plays but the creative or onboard recorder does not get any signal to record the sound.
So I'm getting somewhere I think

[JohnG]

Hi Jacqui,

Mar 6, 2012 17:54:52 GMT Jacqui said:

OK here is where I'm up to...
I plugged the Alesis into my pc with the creative sound card, it installed all the drivers automatically and said working ok.

Good, I suspect that is what happened on the other PC too.

Under the Audio Tab in Sounds, set sound playback to USB Audio Codec,

No, NO, NO!
This is for sound that is generated in the PC, or is received into the PC, to go TO the Alesis.
This MUST BE SET TO GO TO THE PC's SPEAKERS, not to the USB codec.
This incorrect setting is why you can't hear the sound.

I've written this twice before, Jacqui. See the emboldened text.

You must get this setting correct to be able to hear the input.

& sound recording USB Audio Codec.

Yes, this is what you need to be able to record the mix from the Alesis.

Played into the pc but could not hear anything, although I could hear it on the headphones from Alesis, recorded it in onboard windows recorder and it recorded ok, and I can see it as a wav file in the box, I also managed to record in the Creative player, but again don't hear anything from the pc speakers only via the mixer headphones.

because you're not sending the sound to the speakers you're sending it back to the Alesis.

I can't record anything that is playing on the pc though, the sounds have to come from an external player, I do hear it play back to the Mixer from pc, but the recorder on the pc does not pick up the sound.
I don't know where the sound settings for Audio recording are in Sonar 3 ?
if I try and open that application while the usb mixer is plugged in I get a pop up box that says-The following drivers do not support the current audio format, or are in use by another application, please chose whether you want to disable them or use them anyway, then if I play a midi in sonar it plays but the creative or onboard recorder does not get any signal to record the sound.
So I'm getting somewhere I think

Hi Jacqui,

As I thought, the sound is getting in to the PC. The fact that you can record it using windows recorder, tells me that.

Jacqui, in both of my last messages to you I have written that the Sound Playback, in the Audio tab, needs to be set to whatever you normally use to play back sounds through your PC's speakers. That means setting this one (Playback) back to what it was before. (I don't know what it was set to before.)

I don't know what that setting is in your PC so I can't give you precise instructions. But the driver is likely to be for a sound card inside the PC. I've emboldened the two sections in the older messages.

That means NOT the USB Audio Codec. repeat: in the Audio tab, the Sound Playback must be set to your PC's speaker output NOT to the USB codec.

The Sound Recording MUST be set to the USB codec, as you now have it.

With the incorrect setting you are just sending the sounds generated within the PC out to the Alesis mixer. You don't want that. At least NOT to accomplish what you're trying to do here. Then you should hear the sound coming in from from the mixer.

Unless you get that setting correct you'll hear nothing.

Once you have that sorted we can move on and we can deal with Sonar.

In general, for any normal (not windows) application, you have to tell it what you want to record from.This means setting its recording input to the new driver, that is the USB audio codec. That is what you will need to do in an audio track in Sonar.

Regards,
JohnG.