how do we feel about using midi

[vincentvaughan]

Hello again everyone
As Im new to the idea of using midi files / backing tracks to gig live with Im interested to know about everyones experiences as far as audience reaction/opinion is concerned.
Do the audiences really give a hoot and should we really give a damn about the odd one who does sneer and snigger.

How does everyone feel about using them........is it just kareoke taken one step further

Is it all a necessary 'evil' to being an entertainer ?
is it something you just could not do without once you start?

The reason I suppose I have steered clear over the years is that the few times I heard others performing with midi tracks it sounded awful, unreal and plastic.....with the performers 'letting on' to play guitar or what ever, when in fact the guitar may not have been plugged in never mind be in tune.
I thought to myself...if thats what thats all about Im steering clear

I had an experience last year in a hotel lounge which I had held a two and a half year residency in which knocked me a bit side ways at first.
For umpteen years now my show has been vocals and guitar backed up with drum machine with bass line written in by me for each song........very sucessful in its own right.
On the night in question I had a pretty full room right from the start but I could tell by looking, that the audience were not ready to go 1000 mph immediately so I kicked off with guitar / vocals only with a selection of accoustic songs ala james taylor neil young etc The reaction from the outset was great.....one of those nights when the audience were literally eating out of my hand.
I went through about 6 songs one after another without a break other than a Riff to take me to the key change and intro to the next song etc when a guy strides up to the stage area and interupted me in mid song and muttered something about how he wanted to play my guitar and sing.........he wasnt drunk or anything, just one of those guys with a 'man about town know it f....g all' head on him...........I kept the chord progression going on the guitar but very politely said to him off mic that house rules prevented it..........where he immediately began ranting out loud that I wasnt playing at all and that I was miming to a track etc and trying to rise support from the crowd about it.

For the first time in a long long time I was thrown completely off......so much so that I had to excuse myself to the audience and leave the stage before I ended up doing something to the guy that would have had me arrested.................
Went back on stage a few minutes later faced the back wall and ploughed on just to get through........but really PEEEEEEEED OFF

Much later on a thought occurred to me about it......I thought to myself.....'Man I must be good' if I sounded that good that the guy thought I was miming...............I jest but Im sure you all know what I mean...........

I began to think about why bothering to try keeping it 'real' musically and doing your best to be the best you can for your audience all the time when the reality is that maybe in fact audiences just dont give a s..t anymore.......or is it just me.

I suppose the discussion I would like to get going here is, as musicians should we try and please our selves a little and not care what the punter thinks whether we are 'playing' or not but perhaps theres a buzzz for the performer to be had on a personal level singing with a good track..and to hell with what anyone thinks

Any way I know I have got into a bit of a rant but I would really appreciate everyones opinions and a lively discussion about this

Regards

Vincent

[frankie]

If you are playing thru a decent sound system and not sounding like a jap disco all is well.
Hints..... entertain crack a few jokes, dont play more than 2 songs in a row in the same key or beats per min.

[levi2]

Its called keeping up with the times i was in a 5 piece band and promised never to use a drum machine when we split up we ended up being a trio using a drum machine vowing never to use backing tracks but with different bass players coming and going in the end me and me m8 thought stuff it lets do what 90% of duos and single acts do and use some sort of backing midi or mp3 and didnt realise but there were 3 4 even 5 piece bands using ome kind of backing. I think present day most punters just like songs they can tap there feet to or dance theyre not bothered if you spent weeks learning it or days its the sign of the times a lot of venues can only afford single artists now so they make the best of it with using backing sometimes you could say might aswell have a dj on playing tracks but its the visual thing punters like someone they can watch entertaining and thats whats its all about now entertaining hope that wasnt confusing

[Tommydee]

i know guys that changed to one and two man bands with backing tracks not because it was the future but economics less guys in the band the more money you got payed

[freeway]

Hi Vincent

Good topic and Id say you'll get a pretty good response to this one as I'm sure a lot of us have been there before and can relate to what you say. I'm gigging about 24 years myself now and like others started off in bands which slowly dwindled down to 3 piecs 2 piece until eventually about 10 years ago decided I had enough aggro and hassle to do me a lifetime so went out on my own.

It was a big and scary decision to be honest as I had hid behind the lead singer and other band for many years doing the odd bit of harmonies here and there, but I knew I could sing some bit just prob needed the confidence and going it alone sure gave me that .

Like yourself and many others here Id say backing tracks weren't even in the picture back then and I gigged with an old Roland CR 80 drum machine among others for a good few years . But saw a guy one night using backing trax with a Roland Sound Canvas/Sound Brush and I was hooked.

Anyway getting back to your point I have found a lot of the sneerers and sniggerers and guys like the one you mentioned in my experience anyway are usually older die hard musicians who never moved with the times and could either never get used to or accept the new technology . At the beginning I used to really feel very uncomfortable with those guys watching every move I made but after a while I said to myself I can sing I can play Im gigging a few nights a week and they.re doing nothing so to hell with them all.

In the times we live in audiences just want to be entertained and acknowledged and as frank says people expect good quality sounding acts and they're are some not so good sounding ones out there putting it mildly.... ;D

Some acts try to disguise the fact that theye using trax at all and have the volume so low (as if theyre embarassed to be using them) that they might as well switch them off altogether.

I actually started like that myself and actually edited out most of the instruments ....nowadays I leave the kitchen sink in and I hold my head up and feel very comfortable using trax .

So whether its glorified karaoke or not I dont give a damn to be honest my occupation pays my bills and puts food on the table and thats the only thing I care about these days and you'll see these muppets will slowly drift away into the sunset if you ignore them......

Anyway thats my rant for the day Vincent can't see myself ever doing anything else so keep the faith ok........

Cheerz

Barry

[frankie]

Like most I was in a band for nearly 30 years.I started in a 6 piece female vocalist left due to pregnancy.
Now down to 5 Drummer moved away, bass player went to the Uk,
Got sick of rehearsing the same old stuff when new members came and went.
Saw 3 guys using a Roland E10 patterns to fit songs ,good idea but sounded boring.
Read about midis in a keyboards mag,
Purchased a sequencer and sound module a wrote all our backing drums and bass
Bought a 300watt stereo hi fi soley for backing with bins behind us,
Our line up was keyboards,rhythm and lead.We all sang and harmonised.
Keyboards player became ill and left.
Found out about buying midi files and also on the net.
Next step was buying 2 voiceworks harmonisers and we supported each others vocals with 3 part harmonies.
We could sing in any key as we both had different ranges.
We had work every weekend all over the North Island of New Zealand.
Mainly Workingmens clubs and RSL's. We also did many Hops.
Supported a caberet star on many occasions.
Money excellent accomodation paid for.New Tears Eve $1,000 each.
Refused to let piss heads get up and sing.
Most smart arse comments were from wanna be's who were told to get a band together and do better.
I must say that the dicipline of playing with midi files has spoilt me from "live band "gigs.
I have moved to Australia now and am in hibernation mode till I work out what I am going to do.

[weegeo]

Good topic with some interesting points:I have been a gigging musician for 48 years {i started very young lol} and originally i was a drummer,i drummed for over 30 years before that well known irishman `arthur ritus`got my wrists and fingers it was round about this time that `backing tracks`started to appear and to be very honest i was very against them i was determined to keep my `act live`so much so that when i stopped drumming i moved on to doing `cabaret`turns and for a while it was good `craic`but i missed the full camaraderie you get from a band and i noticed that some off the bands that where backing me kept asking me if i had a `midi file` with me so the technology had started to reach bands that i knew well and respected. I bought a keyboard with a built in file player and practised like mad to become proficient with it i got into a band and started using `midi`we used the orchestration mostly as the rest of the guy`s all played to me this lifted us out off the `karaoke`field and give us the edge over the other guys that where using tracks. Backing tracks are here to stay and will progress [we have moved from midi to mp3 ] very quickly and the clubs expect the guys they employ to move with the technology to keep their customers happy and coming back for more,i don`t gig as much now circumstances won`t let me but the band carries on and i still would do files for them it keeps my passion going and i still get the same buzz now with all the technology that i got when i started way back in the dark ages lol lol
Last words from me if you want to be a karaoke singer then sing the songs exactly like the track BUT if you want to be YOU then take your track and customise it to suit yourself personally if you can`t do it!! this forum is full of guys that will help you and even do it for you [such is the free help that is in this forum] So there you have it the thoughts of old weegeo lol

[shanless]

I remember playing..the very first night..in a new venue to me and sort of half way through the night a guy started spouting off the I wasn't playing and couldn't play the guitar...he was starting to get on my t*ts...so I challenged him...''if I'm not playing guitar I'll buy EVERYONE in this bar a drink of their choice...but if I can play guitar YOU buy everyone a drnk of their choice''....the people in the bar started then to heckle him and he stormed out...he never challenged me again.....the venue has since closed due to the times we now live in........and I must agree with Frankie and I quote..''I must say that the dicipline of playing with midi files has spoilt me from "live band "gigs.''...I found that I started to get lazy with my playing...I've recently started a 2 piece..Rhythm 'n' Riffs ( keyboard for beat ..bass foot pedals and a great lead player and me on acoustic and lead vocals ) and I must say that it has revived my playing

[Tubbs]

Oct 26, 2011 8:54:08 GMT frankie said:

Like most I was in a band for many years.I started in a 6 piece female vocalist left due to pregnancy.
Now down to 5 Drummer moved away, bass player went to the Uk,
Got sick of rehearsing the same old stuff when new members came and went.
Saw 3 guys using a Roland E10 patterns to fit songs ,good idea but sounded boring.
Read about midis in a keyboards mag,
Purchased a sequencer and sound module a wrote all our backing drums and bass
Bought a 300watt stereo hi fi soley for backing with bins behind us,
Our line up was keyboards,rhythm and lead.We all sang and harmonised.
Keyboards player became ill and left.
Found out about buying midi files and also on the net.
Next step was buying 2 voiceworks harmonisers and we supported each others vocals with 3 part harmonies.
We could sing in any key as we both had different ranges.
We had work every weekend all over the North Island of New Zealand.
Mainly Workingmens clubs and RSL's. We also did many Hops.
Supported a caberet star on many occasions.
Money excellent accomodation paid for.New Tears Eve $1,000 each.
Refused to let piss heads get up and sing.
Most smart arse comments were from wanna be's who were told to get a band together and do better.
I must say that the dicipline of playing with midi files has spoilt me from "live band "gigs.
I have moved to Australia now and am in hibernation mode till I work out what I am going to do.

Thats it in a nutshell Frank..no beating around the bush there!! lol

(p.s. i hope the reason going from a 6 piece to a 5 piece wasnt down to you!! ;D)

[frankie]

Oct 26, 2011 13:07:47 GMT Tubbs said:

Oct 26, 2011 8:54:08 GMT frankie said:

Like most I was in a band for many years.I started in a 6 piece female vocalist left due to pregnancy.

Thats it in a nutshell Frank..no beating around the bush there!! lol

(p.s. i hope the reason going from a 6 piece to a 5 piece wasnt down to you!! ;D)

No I had protection[the wife] lol

[tradman]

Vincent,

I generally put a setlist of 3 tracks together pause, bit of banter jokes and it goes down well with the crowd. Also there is a great midi communnity (here especially) and you can in no time become a a bit of a dab hand at another skill of mastering midi.

Best of Luck
Tradman

[oliver101]

I think its all about going out there and entertaining the audience. It doesn't matter whether you are playing to 40 or 400 people, or whether you are backing yourself with just an acoustic guitar a 20 piece big band, midi or mp3 files, just go out there and knock the audience out. No two audiences are the same, you will always get numpties wanting to take the stage over. The best way I have for stopping anyone else wanting to sing is that I use a headset microphone and tell people my hair is full of scabs and dandruff. I always try to do one song in an evening with just my voice and the guitar.

Good subject.

Ian

[vincentvaughan]

Thanks a lot for some great replies lads...........though I think I left the impression with a few that I am just starting out.........yeah sure Im just starting out using midi, but I have been gigging now for 29 years.....23 'proffesionally'.....thats what you call it when its what you do for a living..........isnt it?
I have no difficulty reading a crowd or how to run my gig regarding 'working them' chatting with the between songs and when the time is right, if a punter wants to come up and sing a song....better still especially if he/she turns out to be a 'gem' and is good.....it makes me smile
Its the odd 'c u next tuesday' can throw you thats all and you just have to try and avoid then and be firm with them....
The main reason for my post was to get a feel from you guys already using trax and being maybe a solo or duo with a whole band in a box so to speak 'going on' as to how you all feel about using them.....and your replies all reflect my inner thought about it all......so long as the trax are the best sounding you can make them and you can perform the songs well........get out there and give it socks and enjoy it and to Hell with the odd brainless calf who seems to think that the singer is employed purely so as he will have something to snigger at.
To quote Barry, yeah your right leave in 'the kitchen sink' if it will stay in tune and keep up the with the tempo and hold my head up high and be proud and start gettin to feel comfortable using trax.....

Thanks guys......keep the comments replies and answers coming

Regards

Vincent

[weegeo]

Just another thought [wee senior moment lol lol] as far as tracks go and this is the way i look at it if i`m walking down the street passing bars or clubs and all the guys are doing `hmmm living next door to alice if they all sound the same i`m not going to go in and listen to them BUT if i hear a different take on the song then i`ll go in there and listen. The point is try and make your track that little bit different from the rest and thats were you`ll get more enjoyment from the public will come up and say `that was a good song never heard it done like that before`and you`ll probably end up with more work out of it. As i said previously if you need a file `tweaked` and you can`t do it yourself just ask the guys in here are second to none. Keep us up to date

weegeo

[shyamwestwind]

Hi Vincent
A Very interesting topic and justifiably provoking. The truth always hurts , but ....... well........ its the truth .
I'm very sure all of us here would love to play LIVE as a band . Its fun, its creative, its entertaining and VERY SATISFYING ! I'm sure all of us here started out with bands , and it does feel strange singing with the Band in my Box. Oh yes, I do play my keyboards and the backing by piano, strings etc are by me , but the band is still in the box !
Very fortunately,I led a very good "tight" band loved by very many i the venues and cities we played at, and I can, very humbly state that these fans or supporters are still there most every where I perform today and though I now play with backing tracks and with a LIVE lead guitarist, the audience never question my "integrity" . They believe I am a musician and that I'm not faking it. They know the music has been sequenced, but they turn a blind eye to that fact. All they need to hear is their requests from the days when they heard me with my band .
I guess I'm fortunate to have our reputation follow me.
As weegeo rightly said , we must put our "masala" into the songs we sing and "re mix" the originals to entertain refreshingly. This we do in most of our songs, but leave some as original as possible so as not to irk the die hards among the crowd.
I am 65 years old and lucky to be still singing and very fortunate to still have a fan following (if I may humbly say so) and I think I'll be forgiven for using my baton with the slaves inside my box . Singing is my forte though I play (or vmay I say .... played) aquite a few instruments.
Having said all that, I cant help despise the young new lot of musos who use backing tracks without much knowledge of actual music. They are too lazy to learn to play along, and fake the movements. That, I feel is unforgiveable.
I still long to be able to play with a full LIVE band, to be able to stretch the songs, to take impromptu breaks to chat with the crowds, to be able to wink at the drummer to make him change the beat to something more naughty, to turn to the lead guitarist to play his own fill in, to ask the bass guitarist to slap around. Great collective fun ........... sigh sigh sigh
I guess I'm still kinda embarrassed to sing with my midis, but then these are midis from great musicians from our Forum, so its like playing with the greats !! I actually picture them playing with me when I gig with these tracks !
Great topic Vincent ................ there'll be lots more on this from me........... so do tolerate my home truths.
Cheers............... smile buddy . Remember these are days of recession and not many can afford to hire bands. They can afford to hire me, put some bread in my jar and feed me while the slaves in my box sing economics to the broke !!!!!!!!