Soft Synths or Virtual Instruments 1.

[JohnG]

Thought I'd start another thread about Virtual Instruments or Soft Synths or even soundfonts if you like (one particular variety).

I've been getting to grips with these things for a little while now and am prepared to share my experiences, although I'm still very much in learning mode still, it's such a vast field.

Is anyone interested and, if so, what would you like to know about them? My own use has been mostly in the area of Orchestral work but it equally applies to most (all?) areas of music production.

JohnG.

[JohnG]

From the lack of response I take it there's no interest in this?
JohnG.

[steveb]

Hi John,
Thanks for the opportunity to ask a question
Maybe you could explain and clarify what is a soft Synth and a Virtual Instrument.

[freeway]

Thanks John

In a nutshell well explained and easily understood by me anyway. A pity these VST's cant be incorporated into Pro Audio 9 I find the controls and overall layout of Sonar 7 a real turn off I needed to purchase this last year when I invested in the EastWest Goliath Series which I never really came to grips with.

But between getting viruses asio drivers and Play playing up and personal problems I gave up......but I did actually get it to work once and the sound was mind blowing for sure the violin really sounded like a real insrument but by the time I got back into it again the Play player was outdated and I just put it to one side .

Is there a way to make the Sonar layout more user friendly like Pro Audio ? would really encourage me to get back into experimenting again had high hopes of investing in some more software from East West like the Beatles one can't remeber the name now Graham (rainbow) also has it ........but funds are pretty low now esp in this climate but maybe sometime in the near future I might have a cozy chat with the other half ;D

OK John Ill see if I can get this all up and running again and its good to know that your there if I need any help ..........

Many thanks again

Regards

Barry

[JohnG]

Hi Barry,

Yes, you do need a later software sequencer than pro audio to access them directly.

However I have heard of people having some success with sending the MIDI output of e.g. XGworks to e.g. MIDI yoke, then from that to a free standing VST host which has the VSTi you want loaded into it.

A bit convoluted but I'm told it works.

Personally I went through the same loop as you did. After several glitches on the way I ended up understanding Sonar 7 and getting it to work okay. I found Cubase just as difficult to get started with, and a very similar GUI to Sonar.

Perseverance was the key. I'd invested quite a bit into the East West libraries.

JohnG.

[steveb]

John, your musical experience is priceless and your generosity to explain at length in such great detail is overwhelming.

I have Cakewalk Pro 9 and Roland VSC, do you have any info to improve the sound quality of these two programs?

[Jacqui]

John is this something I would be able to try with Cakewalk Sonar 3 Studio Edition?

Jacqui

[JohnG]

Hi Steve and Jacqui,

Thank you Steve, my objective is purely personal, I want more people to understand and to feel comfortable using this technology before I 'pop my clogs'. Then they can pass it on to others. Music is so important to me I can't imagine a life without it. I believe many more people would find more fulfilling lives if they spent more time with music.

As the first step into a bigger world, one of the first things I believe both of you could try is to get hold of a copy of SynthFont from here: www.synthfont.com/. On the same site you will find reference to where the author stores some GM SoundFonts ... hmmm, they're here: www.synthfont.com/soundfonts.html.

As you can see they can be pretty big. BIG is a good sign it means many high quality samples. But it does mean you need a high speed link to download them, and preferably a download manager.

The one I use is FDM (free download manager) which you can find here: www.freedownloadmanager.org/. I use it all the time integrated into FireFox with it throttled back to download at about half the speed of my DSL link, one file at a time. But you can queue up dozens of files. If the download site allows it, stop downloads part way through and then resume them at a later date. Shuffle the order of downloads to move important ones up the list, all sorts.

The sound fonts listed are just GM but all sorts are available.

Once set up (see the tutorials on the SythFont site), SynthFont appears in Windows just like VSC, as a MIDI device, so you point your application at it, be it Cakewalk 9 or Sonar 3 and let fly.

Jacqui, I even think there's a special version designed to plug directly into WinAmp, so you could play MIDI files back through that, I believe. I haven't tried this though.

Steve, there's no way I know to alter VSC. With programs around like SynthFont IMO there's no need.

It's one step into a world of soft synthesis or virtual instruments, if you prefer. You may be surprised at how much better the sounds can be.

If you've found this any use, pas it on to others so that they can enjoy it too. If we all passed on to one other person just think what we could do!
Any help?
JohnG.

[JohnG]

Apr 25, 2011 9:51:48 GMT freeway said:

Thanks John

In a nutshell well explained and easily understood by me anyway. A pity these VST's cant be incorporated into Pro Audio 9 I find the controls and overall layout of Sonar 7 a real turn off I needed to purchase this last year when I invested in the EastWest Goliath Series which I never really came to grips with.

But between getting viruses asio drivers and Play playing up and personal problems I gave up......but I did actually get it to work once and the sound was mind blowing for sure the violin really sounded like a real insrument but by the time I got back into it again the Play player was outdated and I just put it to one side .

Is there a way to make the Sonar layout more user friendly like Pro Audio ? would really encourage me to get back into experimenting again had high hopes of investing in some more software from East West like the Beatles one can't remeber the name now Graham (rainbow) also has it ........but funds are pretty low now esp in this climate but maybe sometime in the near future I might have a cozy chat with the other half ;D

OK John Ill see if I can get this all up and running again and its good to know that your there if I need any help ..........
Many thanks again
Regards
Barry

Hi Barry,

Doing a bit of research on your behalf, I came across a program called VSThost at www.hermannseib.com/english/vsthost.htm.

This takes the appearance of a MIDI interface (apparently) and hosts MIDI effects or VSTi. It may be worth a look at as a simpler way of adding EastWest instruments to CWPA9.

From what I can see, you add the PLAY VST to the host and then you can load and play libraries just as you would if had VSC as the MIDI output of CWPA.

I haven't tried it yet but I intend to give it a go with XGworks which has the same problem as Cakewalk, no VST plug-in interface.

Any use?
JohnG.

[JohnG]

Hi again Barry,

Good to report, I've used MIDI yoke and then VSThost.

The output of XGworks or, I'm guessing, CWPA9 is set to MIDI yoke input 1, that is then connected to VST host as a MIDI input. I load VST host with PLAY and load the instruments as usual, and bingo, I can get XGworks playing EWQLSO or Goliath.

Took a little playing around, but it works.

Yippee! ;D

JohnG.

[freeway]

That sounds great John. .....sorry for the delay in replying was on a very slow connection for the past few days and as well as reinstalling Win 7 after a nasty virus I needed to download the Play update before I can get started.

In the meantime Ill download the Midi Yoke and VST host and report back when Im done so you might then run through it with me how to actually set it up in CWPA.......if not XG Works

Thanx again talk soon

Barry

[steveb]

OK John, now that I have downloaded the Syth Font player, do I just use this program like I use my Cakewalk program and load my Midi files into it and edit and play or do I need to download the GM Sound fonts. I have play my Midi files in Syth Font and they do sound exceptionally good.

[steveb]

An update John ...the sound quality in SythFont (with a Midi) is somewhat less dynamic than Cakewalk. the volume is lower and the percussion is subdued with a less emphasis on the snare drum. these are not criticisms just my first observation. Can I edit all aspects of the Midi file as I can in Cakewalk??..Gee I wish you were on a phone so that I could ask you all my questions

[JohnG]

Hi Steve,

The basic sound font that is downloaded with SynthFont is probably equivalent to what comes with Cakewalk. For a better sound people search the web for other sound fonts. Certainly better than the standard one can be downloaded from the same place as SynthFont. I put a link up to the Fonts page in the earlier post. The biggest one is about 70 meg to download.

70 meg (double that expanded) may seem huge but against a modern VST sample library, e.g. East West, which comes on half a dozen DVDs, where each individual sample may be up 4 meg in size, it's comparatively tiny.

Anyway, a GM synthfont works in a very similar way to Roland's VSC. It responds to MIDI commands in the same way.

JohnG.

[steveb]

Thanks John.
I have downloaded the file Chaos_V20.sfark to my desk top, whats the next move??