Volume issue

[ironbaden]

Ok here is the problem. Using Cakewalk ( and other midi players and various sound modules ect ) to play back song A and Song B. Both songs have identical drum volumes...115 ....snares 100 ....Kick 127 using identical kits and drum notes. the same goes for the Bass and other instruments in Both tracks... every thing looks identical to me...how ever.... song A is much louder and has more punch than song B. I've look at everything i can look at as far as i know and i can't seem to figure this out.... I know I'm missing something ...any ideas?

[frank]

Have you checked control 11 ? Are the velocities the same? Is the panning okay ?

[ironbaden]

Panning is the good... velocities are the same.... control 11 doesn't seem to be an issue ...will double check and let ya know ...thanks Frank...double checked because i forgot what control 11 was... expression. no control 11 on any tracks... this seems to me more of an overall volume versus volume, song A is louder than song B... even tho everything seems to be the same with each track.

[frank]

Any sys ex messages ?

[ironbaden]

None that I can find...it makes no sense to me at all..

[JohnG]

If you want to send me the two files I'll take a look and see what I can see.
You'll find my email address in my profile.
JohnG.

[ironbaden]

will do john!

[JohnG]

Hi Baden,

Have received your SMFs and will look at them today, with any luck and a tail wind.

I'll report what I find whatever the outcome. If I don't reply, it's not because I don't care it's just that I've got a lot on at the moment and I can be bit forgetful. You have my permission to give me a nudge in a few days if you hear nothing.

Regards,
JohnG.

[JohnG]

Hi Baden,

The reason they sound different is because they are quite different:

Here's 12RnRAN just the drum track in List View:



Here's BCM just the drum track again:



Look over to the right of the listings at the column 'value 3'. Do you see how different they are? Everything is played at a high velocity in the first, and at a varying velocity in the second. Also note that the second is 10 ticks late all the way through whereas the first is spot on the beat.

When I looked at the velocities of the other tracks they had similar differences.

I would say the first has been step sequenced the second played in and quantised using an unusual setting.

If you want to make the 2nd like the 1st, you could use the "edit/interpolate" command in Cakewalk to alter the velocity of the notes. You could select just the 'kick' and move that up a bit, and then all the rest of the notes i.e. everything but 'kick' and move that to '100'. You'd have to work on a lot of tracks in BCM to get it right.

The way I work is to have the output volume on my MU module full up (best s/n ratio) and then make sure the channel volumes and velocities don't go too much above 100 (120 max). I try to author my files more like BCM with a bit of dynamics to them. When I get a file like 12RnRAN I tend to pull all the velocities down a bit.

In my view BCM is a "professionally" made file, 12RnRAN not.

Any help?
JohnG.

[JohnG]

What am I saying?

Not ten ticks late ... idiot ... that's the note length.
Most drums just need a very short hit, like above, many don't respond at all to the note off command.

The timing is interesting too on BCM some early, some spot on, some fractionally late. Just like a real drummer. But nothing out by more than 5 ticks. Either brilliant or some clever quantizing has been going on.

Crikey, I must have been in a state yesterday not seeing that.
Apologies,
JohnG

[ironbaden]

I'm with you there.... I understand what ur saying ...but... if u notice that the snare in both songs the values in value 3 are identical yet the volume of the snare in R and R is much louder thats what i can't figure. both are using snare 38 and have identical values...and even tho the kiscks are different the as far as notes the volumes are identical and again R and R is louder. If u just compare drum tracks kick and snare u'll see what i mean. Thanks fre ur help too !!

[frank]

Reverb values different try making both the same and see if any change.Reverb tends to change the dynamics.

[maverick]

hi glad to see this querie i was just about to ask the same first of i have no knowledge of midi sequencing as such i just ajust the midi to my own preferences ie altering instruments ,key etc its been okay except
as ironbaden said have set my recordings to the same level with variable results
being not so technical how can i fix this setup pc to mixer to midi player to pa
use logic platinum 5.5.1 thanks maverick(jim)

[frank]

Feb 9, 2011 11:13:49 GMT maverick said:

hi glad to see this querie i was just about to ask the same first of i have no knowledge of midi sequencing as such i just ajust the midi to my own preferences ie altering instruments ,key etc its been okay except
as ironbaden said have set my recordings to the same level with variable results
being not so technical how can i fix this setup pc to mixer to midi player to pa
use logic platinum 5.5.1 thanks maverick(jim)

Dont you mean midi file player--to mixer--to PA ?

[maverick]

hi frank thanks for reply the setup i use at home to record my files to midi player to gig with is
my midis are on my pc i set the midi up to my personal preferences then i send it to my mixer then to my midi player i have set the volume level hopefully to get volume the same for all my midis hopefully when gigging the level of volume stays the same after recording midi to my player i play it throughmy hi fi and there are some that the volume has to be up or down thanks maverick(jim)